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  • #16
    It's been a couple years but I'm finally back into a position to proceed with my pursuit of my PE goals!

    First, thank you bh and Bib for the critiques. I've been building back up over the past week, reading as much of this forum as I can, and tinkering with technique, and I can already see and feel much of what you were trying to convey.

    Not much to report, just following the NOS progression and trying to tune into sensations and their implications. Will be checking in every so often with gains and/or issues. Just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the support you've already given, and I couldn't be happier or more grateful that you're still around to offer such valuable insight and critique, Bib!

    Cheers,

    JJ

    Comment


    • #17
      JJ



      > One issue is I get a lot of pain at the attachment point when I tighten the hanger down enough to avoid slipping. I think it's the skin being stretched by the fingers, in addition to the internals.<

      You are trying to tighten down on the lig/tunica fascia. It is a knot on the internals. A few guys can hang behind the knot, and a few can hang in front of the knot. Most put the knot in the middle of the hanger. You do this by pulse pushing as you go through the tightening process. At some point, you should be able to feel the hanger sliding over the knot. Push the hanger just past the knot, and finish tightening there.

      > Also, the glans starts to go numb after the 1st set. 2nd set, numbness usually starts at about 15 mins, and by the 3rd set it's going numb after about 10 mins. I've been ending the set at those points.<

      You do not have to do so. In fact, it is retarding your ability for the tissues to adapt. What you are describing is a lack of blood flow. Much like a hand or foot falling asleep. As long as sensation returns after taking off the hanger, it is not an issue. Also, be sure you limit sets to no more than 20 minutes, and return full circulation in the ten minute breaks between sets.

      >After the first week I added a set to 4 sets per day. I'm concerned because the numbness continues to set in at the same times and I don't feel my tissues are adapting at all, even at the low weight of 3 lb. At this point I'm wondering if it's a technique issue or if I just need to give it more time. While hanging, I initially felt some skin stretch (first 2-3 days), but since then I've felt nothing besides pain at the attachment point and numbness in the glans.<


      You do have technique issues. ​
      First the good:

      Your wrapped bundle looks solid and stable. You are starting the wrap in the correct spot. Your bottom gap is larger than the top gap, and the top gap is about right, IF the hanger is tight while hanging.

      Fix this:
      Your hanger attachment point needs to be about a quarter inch further back toward the base. You want the attachment point to be about a quarter inch behind the leading edge of the wrap, as seen from the side, midline of the shaft.

      Your gap between head and hanger is huge. That is fine, as long as the attachment is comfortable. You said it is not. So, you need to pulse push forward a bit, over the lig/tunica fascia, and tighten there. You use your left thumb to keep a gap between head and hanger, as you finish tightening.

      Look at your attachment picture. Where you have the hanger in that pic is about where you probably need to finish tightening.

      If you are wrapping with 36 inches of black Tband, you can probably spread the wrap out some, wrapping closer to the base. Doing this, you may need to move the bottom hex nut adjustments in a bit, but you have plenty of room there to do so. That will allow you to move your attachment point back a quarter inch, and then tape the last pass of wrap behind the hanger attachment point.

      You are hanging with way too much blood in the head and upper shaft. That may be a big cause of the numbness while hanging.

      When you first attach the hanger, before tightening much, if at all, you need to push it all the way to the head, and allow the excess blood to move past the wrap. If it cannot, then either your wrap is too tight, you tightened the hanger too much before pushing forward, or a combination.

      If you still cannot get out the excess blood, then squeeze the head and upper shaft, and get out most of the blood, before you push the hanger forward. If that does not work, let me know.

      After pushing forward, hold it there a minute, until all the excess blood is removed. Then use your left thumb to reestablish the gap between head and hanger, as you go through the tightening process.

      You want to push down/forward with your left thumb, on the shaft, between head and hanger, while you are lifting up on the hanger with your left palm, as you tighten the hanger with your right hand. This will force the shaft low in the shaft well, and keep the excess blood from returning. While waiting between tightening periods, hold forward pressure on the hanger, to keep excess blood from returning. When you finish tightening, the head should be flaccid, and the hanger tight.

      From the time you remove the excess blood, until the set is over, you need some forward pressure, to keep the blood from returning.


      Fix all of that, then send another set of pics.

      Bigger

      Last edited by Bib; 10-16-2017, 03:22 PM.

      Comment


      • #18

        JJ,

        >Ok, I found the "bump" of ligs/tunica fascia and attached in front of it. I spread out the wrap some to wrap closer to the base, and moved the bottom hex nuts in slightly to compensate for the smaller WFG. I didn't experience any numbness in my 4 sets; however, the attachment point pain became so intense by the 10-11 min mark I was unable to continue past that point in any set. (It hasn't been that bad in any session up to now). It is due to skin being squeezed/stretched so tightly by the hanger as it grasps the internals, as I can feel exactly where the pain is when I remove the hanger.<

        OK, You are hanging five lbs or less, right? If you are sure it is the skin, then it has not adapted enough yet to withstand the amount you are tightening. For five lbs or less, you do not need to tighten that much. So experiment with the amount you tighten, and see if you can go longer. Also, check to see about slippage during each set, when you tighten less.

        So, start out not tightening that much, and see if the hanger will hold the amount you wish to hang. IF not, tighten a bit more. Test that. So, you will be experimenting to find the least amount of tightening you need for five lbs or less.

        Then, as you move up in weight, you will SLOWLY tighten a bit more each week. That will allow time for your skin to adapt.

        Also, I removed the wrap after the first set and there was a lot of edema, so I "reverse jelqed" toward the base for a few minutes before rewrapping. I tried using vaseline in subsequent sets but it didn't seem to help much.

        >I made the adjustments you suggested as far as where to attach the hanger; it seems comfortable enough at first, but the pain gradually comes on and intensifies.<

        And you are sure it is coming from the skin?

        >I'm sure I could get more blood out of the head/upper shaft, but don't understand one part of the process: I attach the hanger (without tightening), push it forward and squeeze the head/upper shaft to drain the blood; at this point, when the blood has left, how do I transition back to the area I want to tighten and tighten the hanger without allowing blood to return?<

        Left thumb between head and hanger, as you lift up on the hanger, as you go through the tightening process. Your left thumb keeps the proper gap, then lifting up keeps forward pressure on the shaft, so blood does not return.

        >Once I tighten, I can keep more blood from returning by keeping constant forward pressure, but I think it's too late at that point since some of the blood has already returned. I've been just squeezing the head with my left fingers and applying upward pressure with my left palm to keep the shaft low in the well.<

        Just push down with your left thumb, as you lift up on the hanger. That will force the shaft low in the shaft well, and keep blood from returning.

        Everything looks good in your pictures, except that you still have too much blood in the head and upper shaft. Before you move up in weight, you have to learn to keep it out. Now, hanging at lower weights, sometimes the head can fill during the set. Later, at higher weights, that will not happen.

        You still have a really large gap between head and hanger in the hanging pic. If that was comfortable, it would be OK. But your attachment is not comfortable. Are you SURE the discomfort is in the skin? If not, try finish tightening the hanger with the hanger a bit closer to the head.

        Bigger

        Comment


        • #19
          Bib,

          Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. I realized my problem was wrapping too loosely; this led to skin becoming wrinkled and then squeezed when the hanger was attached. Also, I think I was over-tightening a bit for only 5 lb.

          Since correcting these issues I've moved up to 5.5 lb and am feeling a lot of skin stretch, so I'll give this a few days and see how it responds.

          I've found that I'm able to get more blood out of the head, but there's still more than I'd like and sometimes it slowly fills during the set. Is there an easy or quick way to remove that blood during the set, or would I have to loosen the hanger to do so?

          JJ

          Comment


          • #20
            JohnJohnson,

            >Since correcting these issues I've moved up to 5.5 lb and am feeling a lot of skin stretch, so I'll give this a few days and see how it responds.<

            You may need a period of dedicated skin stretch. A week or so. But get your technique down first.

            >I've found that I'm able to get more blood out of the head, but there's still more than I'd like and sometimes it slowly fills during the set. Is there an easy or quick way to remove that blood during the set, or would I have to loosen the hanger to do so?<

            No, do not do it during a set. Get it best you can before you finish tightening. Practice.

            I think I told you, if it fills during the set, your wrap may be too tight. But at lighter weights, it is not unusual to get some blood in the head. As you move up in weight, that should stop.

            Bigger

            Comment


            • #21
              Hi Bib,

              Iíve been hanging using the NOS progression for about 3 1/2 weeks now and Iím having an issue I just canít seem to fix. Iím up to 5 sets at 6 lbs per day. My issue is the shaft turning in the hanger. I havenít been able to tighten the hanger down on the CCs one time correctly; instead, every time, they shift into a vertical orientation, and I end up compressing the top and bottom of the shaft as I continue to tighten. I believe the fix you recommend is getting the correct WFG to have the bottom gap larger than the top, with teeth slightly meshed when tight. I have tried that and every other thing I can think of and not once have I been able to tighten the hanger down without this shift occurring.
              Iím still continuing to get all my sets in every day but I know this is not the correct way to hang, and I probably wonít be able to continue moving up in weight at some point. The only issue Iíve been having during sets is numbness to the glans after 15-18 minutes into the 3,4, or 5th sets, in which case I just end the set early and restore blood flow. There is no extended loss of sensation.
              Iíve been hanging with the starter, one I have with the padding, and another with padding removed, and the hardcore, which I like the most, since I feel it grips the internals the most securely. I have done most of the hanging without padding so the soft tissues are pretty well conditioned at this point for my 6 lb sets. I feel I get the best, most secure attachment with minimal underwrap, no T band, and the hardcore. However, this makes my WFG rather small and there is barely any bottom gap when I tighten down the hanger. I feel if I could just avoid the shifting of the CCs this would be the best setup for me, but I have a feeling you may not agree XD.
              Thanks so much for the continued support.

              Comment


              • #22
                JohnJohnson123,

                Did you have to take off the last two years?

                >Iíve been hanging with the starter, one I have with the padding, and another with padding removed, and the hardcore, which I like the most, since I feel it grips the internals the most securely.<

                That is most probably because your technique is not good. Not because of hanger advantage.

                >I have done most of the hanging without padding so the soft tissues are pretty well conditioned at this point for my 6 lb sets.<

                After 3.5 weeks, you are going to have little to no soft tissue conditioning. Use the Starter model correctly.

                >I feel I get the best, most secure attachment with minimal underwrap, no T band, and the hardcore. However, this makes my WFG rather small and there is barely any bottom gap when I tighten down the hanger.<

                See, that is a huge problem. The hangers were not designed to operate that way. First, I doubt your wrapped bundle is solid or stable, not using Tband. Then, you cannot hang with the bottom and top gap the same size. It just will not operate correctly.

                >I feel if I could just avoid the shifting of the CCs this would be the best setup for me, but I have a feeling you may not agree XD.<

                You are correct in that. Here is what you should do...Try to get your technique as good as you can, using my recommendations. Then, send me the four technique pictures. I will evaluate and try to get your technique in the ballpark.

                Please stop hanging the way you have described. There is not much I can do for you, if you want to continue that way.

                Bigger

                Comment


                • #23
                  JohnJohnson123,


                  >Ok, that was the beginning of the 1st set, so still a bit of tightening to do during the set.<

                  It is probably better for you to just take more time tightening before you attach the weight.

                  From the NOS email:

                  Be sure you are tightening slowly, allowing time for the tissues to meld into the hanger. Tighten a good bit, then wait a minute, holding forward pressure on the hanger. Then tighten more. It should be easier. Repeat as much as needed.

                  Do that till you have a solid attachment. it does appear that you are not tightening enough, and the hanger has moved down a bit, perhaps slipping over the internals.

                  >It feels like the CCs are in a vertical orientation instead of horizontal;<

                  Good.

                  >there is too much blood in the head; and when I tighten it pinches the top of the shaft even though I press it down as far into the well as possible while tightening. <

                  That is not the only consideration. That is why I was asking about tightening. If the hanger is very tight, then the top gap is too large. You can reduce the amount of wrap in the attachment zone a bit, and reduce the top gap. BUT, you most likely need to tighten a bit more.

                  Never let the hanger pinch the top of the shaft. Either get the hanger lower in the shaft well, or reduce WFG, or open the bottom hex nuts a bit. The top of the shaft, the dorsal vein and nerve, go in the top blood channel. The top teeth should not impact the wrapped bundle with any great force.

                  >I would estimate the hanger slips down about 1/4 to 1/2Ē during the sets. <

                  That is a big range. A quarter inch is not bad, but a half would be too much. The hanger should move down a bit when compressing the internals.

                  >It feels like I have too much wrap and canít get a solid attachment on the shaft<

                  Your bottom gap is plenty big. You can reduce the amount of wrap in the attachment zone, and move the bottom hex nuts in a bit. But the amount of wrap you are using is not too much. You can tighten the hanger enough to grasp the internals easily. Just tighten a couple more rounds before attaching the weight.

                  > and it also pinches on top when I tighten.<

                  That is simply adjusting the WFG and bottom hex nuts, and the amount of tightening. This is a trial and error process. You can spend an hour going through the parameters, and get it in the ballpark. You are not too far off now. First, get your WFG about right, then get the hanger adjustments right.

                  >I have a thread on your forum if you want me to continue the discussion there.<

                  After your go through the trial and error process, you need to attach the hanger about an eighth to a quarter inch further back from the leading edge of the wrap. Everything else looks good. I did not see too much blood in the head.

                  I will cut and paste this to your thread.

                  Bigger

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Bigger,

                    Thank you for the advice. Iím still having trouble with pinching in the top teeth of the hanger. I reduced WFG to a single strip of black Thera, 2 1/4Ē x 16Ē, with no underwrap, and have only 1-2 passes worth of thickness over the attachment point. I get as low as possible in the well but still get pinched when I tighten. I donít know if I should do: 1) even less wrap and bring the bottom nuts in, or 2) more wrap to make it more rigid so my shaft doesnít get squeezed so much as to get pinched, usually in the top and bottom gaps. Although I really canít even do less wrap at this point.

                    Still got sets in yesterday, feeling mostly skin stretch.

                    Also, above I mentioned the CCs were sliding into a vertical orientation when I tighten, i.e., one on top of the other when looking at the shaft from above. You replied ďgoodĒ; but I thought they were supposed to stay next to each other as the hanger is tightened and compresses them? I thought this is why too much turning of the head was a bad sign?

                    JJ

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      JohnJohnson,

                      >Iím still having trouble with pinching in the top teeth of the hanger. I reduced WFG to a single strip of black Thera, 2 1/4Ē x 16Ē, with no underwrap, and have only 1-2 passes worth of thickness over the attachment point. I get as low as possible in the well but still get pinched when I tighten<

                      Now you know that is not the answer. Or at least, with your bottom hex nut adjustments, that is not the answer.

                      >I donít know if I should do: 1) even less wrap and bring the bottom nuts in, or 2) more wrap to make it more rigid so my shaft doesnít get squeezed so much as to get pinched, usually in the top and bottom gaps. Although I really canít even do less wrap at this point.<

                      Every good wrapped bundle should have these characteristics:

                      Enough wrapped shaft to attach the hanger at least a quarter inch behind the leading edge of the wrap, as seen from the side, midline of the shaft.

                      If possible, enough wrapped shaft to tape the last pass BEHIND the hanger attachment area.

                      ONE pass of wrap at the top, toward the head, then drop back an eighth inch for the next pass, then another eighth inch for the next. This is to prevent a hard edge of wrap pushing against the nerve bundle, on top of the shaft, behind the head.

                      Then enough wrapped girth, so that you can make the bottom gap larger than the top gap, when the hanger is very tight. Top teeth almost to slightly meshed.

                      Next, the first passes of wrap need to be passive, with little tension on them. Then, you pull more tension on the later passes, where the hanger attaches, to make a solid, stable bundle. This effectively collects the skin, and prevents pinching.

                      Use the least amount of wrap, possible , at the attachment point, to meet those criteria. But cut your wrap longer, to go through the trial and error process of seeing how many passes of wrap you need in the attachment zone. Also, you can wrap any excess behind the hanger attachment area.

                      I would say you are most probably not using enough wrap to do the above. But I cannot know. It is trial and error. You know what does not work, now find what does. When you get in the ballpark, you should know it.

                      >Also, above I mentioned the CCs were sliding into a vertical orientation when I tighten, i.e., one on top of the other when looking at the shaft from above. You replied ďgoodĒ; but I thought they were supposed to stay next to each other as the hanger is tightened and compresses them? I thought this is why too much turning of the head was a bad sign?<

                      I mistook your meaning. I thought you meant the shaft was vertical. Sorry about that. You are correct, if the shaft turns 90 degrees, you are doing something really bad.

                      Bigger

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        JJ,

                        >It’s been a while but I’m still trying to make this work; hope you’re doing well. I’ve attached the 4 pics you always ask for, to see if I’m in the ballpark. <

                        You are in the ballpark. I wish you had got the Starter though. It is tough to learn to hang with the hardcore.

                        Anyway, your only issue in this set of pictures is, you have way too much blood in the head and upper shaft. You cannot hang like that.

                        Everything else checks out...top gap/bottom gap, attachment point, etc. If that works for you, it is great.

                        When you first attach the hanger, before tightening much, if at all, you need to push it all the way to the head, and allow the excess blood to move past the wrap. If it cannot, then either your wrap is too tight, you tightened the hanger too much before pushing forward, or a combination.

                        If you still cannot get out the excess blood, then squeeze the head and upper shaft, and get out most of the blood, before you push the hanger forward. If that does not work, let me know.

                        After pushing forward, hold it there a minute, until all the excess blood is removed. Then use your left thumb to reestablish the gap between head and hanger, as you go through the tightening process.

                        You want to push down/forward with your left thumb, on the shaft, between head and hanger, while you are lifting up on the hanger with your left palm, as you tighten the hanger with your right hand. This will force the shaft low in the shaft well, and keep the excess blood from returning. While waiting between tightening periods, hold forward pressure on the hanger, to keep excess blood from returning. When you finish tightening, the head should be flaccid, and the hanger tight.

                        From the time you remove the excess blood, until the set is over, you need some forward pressure, to keep the blood from returning.

                        > My main problems are:

                        -if I attach in front of the lig/tunica fascia, the head turns to the side. That is, the closer the hanger gets toward the head, the more it turns until it’s essentially grasping the top and bottom of the shaft, instead of the sides. I’ve read a lot about keeping this from happening but I’m not able to do it at this attachment point. I get a solid attachment but I know it’s not correct and I won’t be able to move up in weight.<

                        If you have that much excess blood at the closer attachment point, then it is much easier for the hanger to twist. Then, you need to hold the shaft straight with your left thumb, while lifting up on the hanger, to keep it straight while tightening. After the hanger is very tight, it should NOT be able to turn during a set.

                        >-attaching on the fascia doesn’t seem to be an option because it’s very painful.<

                        It surely can be.

                        >- if I attach behind the fascia I’m able to keep the head relatively straight, as shown in the pic. However it takes a lot of tightening and seems to creep down, causing pain.<

                        I would imagine the pain is from too much blood in the head and upper shaft. But if it is from the hanger slipping to the fascia, I would guess that you are not pulse pushing and/or keeping forward pressure on the hanger while going through the tightening process.

                        That is, pushing down with your left thumb between head and hanger, while lifting up on the hanger with increasing amount of force, whlie tightening the hanger.

                        Bigger

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          JJ,

                          >One quick question: I’ve read that sometimes, with very low weights (<5lb), excess blood can accumulate in the head/upper shaft, but this issue may resolve itself as the weight increases. Could that be a contributing factor? In any case I will try remove it the best I can.<

                          Yes, that can happen. But you still need to get out the excess before tightening and applying weight. Then, if blood collects in the head, it will not be much. Do it right every time, so that eventually, it will stay out as you move up in weight.

                          >(Also I will copy this conversation to my thread on your forum, if you would rather reply there; it’s been a while since I was active there.)<

                          Surely. Just write in your user name when you send in pics.

                          Bigger

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            JJ,

                            >Thank you for the valuable insight, very helpful as I continue forward. Somehow I got an infected hair follicle in the area I was attaching despite trimming the way you recommend (NOT shaving), so I had to back off the past week or so.<

                            OK, if you got an infected hair follicle from trimming, you need to take more care in washing, preferably with an anti-bacterial soap, and then use triple antibiotic for a couple days after trimming, to avoid the infections.

                            This is simply bacteria getting into the follicles. So, you must avoid that as much as possible.

                            > However I still hung every day and experimented with some other attachment points. The listerine seems to really help speed the healing process. Anyway I found I can still attach in the spot I prefer, I just have to be more aware of where the bad spot is when I attach. I’ve sent 4 more pics, if you wouldn’t mind evaluating. <

                            Looks pretty good. But there are two things...your bottom gap is slightly larger than the top gap. But you can move the bottom internal hex nut adjustments out some. The top teeth are not meshed at all.

                            Then, you still need to get out more blood before you finish tightening. That is still too much.

                            Bigger

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