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  • #16
    dd453,

    Before I forget it again, why are you hanging only six days per week? Can you at least get in one or two sets on the 7th day?

    >I tend to disagree here. I think there is always a trigger level when permanent deformation is triggered.<

    Of course, any material will fail at some stress level. But in reality, the patience of every guy may not meet the strength of his collagenous tissues.

    >1. Stretch the shaft and start wrapping at 1 inch from the coronal ridge. Trying to attach a bit closer to the base now (say 1.5'' from coronal ridge) cause the weight is becoming severe.
    2. Spiral down the wrap but not too much cause I strive to NOT involve any structures on the back. Scrotum and so. The length of the helix then depends on the overall length of the shaft. Skin is pulled over any turn of the wrap so that wrinkles are not there.
    3. Attach the hanger with its midline a bit behind the midline of the wrap and start pushing forward pretty hard to do the blood squeeze, this is important or it will manifest later in the set and cause pain. In my experience it is better to do this without closing the top gap by turning the nut but by closing it by hand so you can adjust the force needed to do the blood squeeze in real time and also give some back and forth to better complete it.
    4. Finished the blood squeeze I push back the hanger a bit and start tightening with constant pressure forward/pulse pushing to avoid to "undo" the blood squeeze, find a good spot and tighten down to top gap almost meshed (not so much in the first sets as said). Hopefully shoulders are formed here.
    5. Start the set. I usually do 5/6 set 6 days a week. First and second at full weight and the others the weight goes down a bit. I'm starting to do a lot of swinging and moving back the torso, that's very good because it increases the stress on the ligs without having to increase the weight i.e. without further burdening the glans.<

    Sounds good.

    >My main problem is, I do not want to limit the weight due to suffering of the glans. I want to limit it due to ligs fatigue. So striving to keep a good technique. I have to say that from the 3rd set the shoulders are less efficient and the glans start to hurt a bit, but comparing to the past I have almost zero injuries.<

    As a guy that used to hang many sets in a day, let me tell you it is possible to do without head pain or problems. You see how you described your journey above? Learning and technique refinement? Well, it is the same thing with the later sets.

    You know what the issue is...collagenous tissue matrix fluid squeezed out, so the effective WFG is not as great, so the math changes in the later sets. You must be able to effectively tighten the hanger more, for the lesser WFG. Also, until you get the later sets dialed in, you may have to spend more time tightening.

    >1. Keep on working on the technique, in particoular a proper/complete blood squeeze and shoulder formation. That is the key point to allow the weights to go up.<

    Good.

    >2. Assess the use of a infra red lamp to keep ligs at a higher temperature. Viscoelasticity and plasticity are very dependent on that. This could help. Infra red goes deeper than the heat one could get from a rice sock. I'll leave the rice sock to warm my feet when in bed at night ;-)<

    Good. Any information you can provide about the efficacy of infra red heat would be great. I always thought heat helped me, but others do not use it. Anything 103.5 F or above denatures collagenous material.

    >3. Try to get the weight where I can get real ligs fatigue in the first 2 sets. Now I'm not far it seems, I want to do a session where the limiting factor is ligs fatigue and not glans pressure/pain. This is a struggle between me and glans pressure. Go on 5 sets a day 6 days a week until I reach this level. When I have reached this level i.e. permanent deformation are triggered, I could go up to 7/8 sets per day, 3 in the morning, 5 in the afternoon, 6 days a week. I work at home otherwise this story would have ended a lot of time ago.<

    It appears you have a solid technique foundation. Now, you can experiment a bit around that set of parameters. Attachment point location, etc. The smallest change can make a big difference.

    >Yeah, I'm not one that easily gives up ;-)<

    That is very good for this endeavor.

    >Thank you for your time Bib and excuse me for the long message<

    No worries, and you are welcome.

    Bigger

    Comment


    • #17
      Bib,

      >Before I forget it again, why are you hanging only six days per week? Can you at least get in one or two sets on the 7th day?

      I use to do no hanging on saturdays cause usually I'm away all day. But I think I could manage it in some way and do a couple of sets (no more) so that I hang 7 days a week. Would that make a worthy difference in your experience?

      >As a guy that used to hang many sets in a day, let me tell you it is possible to do without head pain or problems. You see how you described your journey above? Learning and technique refinement? Well, it is the same thing with the later sets.

      May you tell me what was the highest and average weight you handled in a day and for how many sets? To have an idea comparing to my values. I read somewhere you got most of your gains at around 20 lbs, not sure whether this is correct though. Other guys I have read about gained at 10 lbs but I'm not sure those gains were big.

      Well, I will go on with the points said.
      - Trying to get the attachment point a bit closer to the base as of now. To be clear here, the distance is measured from the coronal ridge to the start of the wrapping WHEN the shaft is stretched pre wrapping right? I'm at 1 inch in this measure. Too close to the head it seems. Trying to go to 1.5 now while not involving anything of the back structures. Seems that this is helping. Target is to do all sets with ligs fatigue without being limited by head problems, I'll try to refine until I get there.
      - Start with the infra red lamp. While doing a bit of research I found that apparently "Infrared light (904nm) penetrates to a depth of about 30-40mm which makes it more effective for bones, joints, deep muscle, etc.". That depth I think is surely enough to act on the ligs.
      Also find in the scientific literature some evidence of temperature effect on ligaments, e.g. from a 2013 study " ... results show that the anterior and posterior cruciate ligament flexibility increased and the force needed to move the knee decreased with heat by about 25% compared to cold application". And that is by using thermawrap and not infra red. Well, we'll see whether this works out. I'll surely let you know about that and whether I notice any difference.

      Thanks!
      Last edited by dd453; 11-30-2017, 02:00 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        dd453,

        >I use to do no hanging on saturdays cause usually I'm away all day. But I think I could manage it in some way and do a couple of sets (no more) so that I hang 7 days a week. Would that make a worthy difference in your experience?<

        Absolutely. I consider it imperative. You really need to at least pull out the adhesions from previous deformations. You do not want the tissues to heal for 48 hours without pulling out adhesions. Also, it will help with soft tissue conditioning.

        >May you tell me what was the highest and average weight you handled in a day and for how many sets?<

        No. That was too many years ago. My maximum weight hung for gains was 45 lbs. The number of sets I did that varied. I always tried to start at my max weight, but often had to reduce immediately. Then sometimes, I could hang a couple of sets at my max. My goal was to get into fatigue as quickly as possible, then reduce weight to remain comfortable.

        >To have an idea comparing to my values. I read somewhere you got most of your gains at around 20 lbs, not sure whether this is correct though.<

        I spent a lot of time between 17.5 and 22.5 lbs. Months. Before that, I moved up fairly quickly, always seeking fatigue. In that range, I reached and rode fatigue consistently, and made good gains. Then at some point, fatigue lessened, gains slowed or stopped, and I began moving up again.

        >Other guys I have read about gained at 10 lbs but I'm not sure those gains were big.<

        Oh sure. There have been guys that have made good gains hanging around ten lbs. Once again, strength of collagenous tissues.

        >- Trying to get the attachment point a bit closer to the base as of now. To be clear here, the distance is measured from the coronal ridge to the start of the wrapping WHEN the shaft is stretched pre wrapping right?<

        Corrent.

        > I'm at 1 inch in this measure. Too close to the head it seems. Trying to go to 1.5 now while not involving anything of the back structures. Seems that this is helping. Target is to do all sets with ligs fatigue without being limited by head problems, I'll try to refine until I get there.<

        Just try it and see what you think.

        Bigger

        Comment


        • #19
          Thanks again Bib. I'll let you know how it goes. And about the infra red, when I have some meaningful experience on it.
          I will add 2 sets on saturdays
          Last edited by dd453; 11-30-2017, 02:16 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Hey Bib,

            I have another question. When hanging BTC, the shaft splits the balls on the sides. To me, it also pushes them a bit upside, I have read that is called pre scrotum position and of course it is located a lot before the inguinal canal. I always thought that is absolutely normal and inevitable when hanging BTC. Now I have got a new chair that allows me to hang BTC at more aggressive angles, much better for ligs stress. But those angles are giving me a bit of pain in the testicles when hanging at 20 lbs or so. Nothing big though. I think I might need a bit of conditioning in that regard, but anyway I'm asking confirmation to you whether the pushing upside of the testicles is normal.
            I'm doing jelqing BTB to alleviate that, I know it's good to restore circulation but it might also be good to mitigate the issue above.

            Thanks

            Comment


            • #21
              dd453,

              >When hanging BTC, the shaft splits the balls on the sides. To me, it also pushes them a bit upside, I have read that is called pre scrotum position and of course it is located a lot before the inguinal canal.<

              I have been doing this 20 years, never heard anything about what you are describing. I PULLED the scrotum up, and tucked it between the bottom of my shaft, and body, to get it out of the way. That is, until my skin exit point had dropped enough so that everything hung out of the way.

              >I always thought that is absolutely normal and inevitable when hanging BTC. Now I have got a new chair that allows me to hang BTC at more aggressive angles, much better for ligs stress. But those angles are giving me a bit of pain in the testicles when hanging at 20 lbs or so. Nothing big though. I think I might need a bit of conditioning in that regard, but anyway I'm asking confirmation to you whether the pushing upside of the testicles is normal.<

              PAIN in the testicles of any sort, is not normal when hanging BTC. So, whatever you are doing to cause that, stop.

              Bigger

              Comment


              • #22
                Bib,

                Ok. It could be I'm not pulling the scrotum up enough to leave sufficient scrotum skin for the balls and that might create some upward tension with these new angles. I will reassess. But the point that the balls are split by the shaft it's ok right? I have read that some guy keep the balls on either side but that doesn't look good to me.
                I have some info on the infrared lamp but still work in progress, I will write here when I have more experience.

                Thanks

                Comment


                • #23
                  dd453,

                  >Ok. It could be I'm not pulling the scrotum up enough to leave sufficient scrotum skin for the balls and that might create some upward tension with these new angles. I will reassess. But the point that the balls are split by the shaft it's ok right?<

                  Yes sir.

                  >I have read that some guy keep the balls on either side but that doesn't look good to me.<

                  You are correct. That would impede blood flow to the testicles.

                  >I have some info on the infrared lamp but still work in progress, I will write here when I have more experience.<

                  Thank you.

                  Bigger

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hi Bib,

                    One thing regarding ligs heating (infra red). I did a bit of research and I cover a zone starting about one inch above the exit point of the shaft up to about 4 inches below the belly button. The zone width is from the inner side of one leg to the other. Do you think that's good enough to cover the part of the ligs that (hopefully) will deform? Too large? Too narrow? The most important aspect is the distance from the exit point of the shaft because there are some issues if testicles are heated repeatedly, according to some studies in the the literature.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      dd453,

                      >Tne thing regarding ligs heating (infra red). I did a bit of research and I cover a zone starting about one inch above the exit point of the shaft up to about 4 inches below the belly button. The zone width is from the inner side of one leg to the other. Do you think that's good enough to cover the part of the ligs that (hopefully) will deform? Too large? Too narrow?<

                      If the part in italics is correct, you are not hitting the ligs much if at all. The ligs will extend down the shaft, and attach on the face of the pubic bone. So you want to avoid the testicles, but hit pretty much everything above that.

                      >The most important aspect is the distance from the exit point of the shaft because there are some issues if testicles are heated repeatedly, according to some studies in the the literature.<

                      That is correct. Do not heat the testicles.

                      Bigger

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        >If the part in italics is correct, you are not hitting the ligs much if at all. The ligs will extend down the shaft, and attach on the face of the pubic bone. So you want to avoid the testicles, but hit pretty much everything above that.

                        Yes it is correct ... ok so I'll try to get further down and heat everything above the testicles, including the base of the shaft. I'm studying something to cover the testicles cause it's almost impossible to not heat them when infra red light is used. Aluminum foils reflect almost 100% of IR light so I'm thinking about a way to use them.

                        And regarding the upside? How far is it worth to heat?

                        Thanks

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          dd453,

                          >And regarding the upside? How far is it worth to heat?<

                          Well, it is a fact that collagenous material deforms easier at 103.5 and up. I used heat and liked it. Many others have reported the same. But, there are a lot of guys that have never used heat, and gained well. So, I cannot say that it is a must.

                          If a guy has really tough collagenous tissues, it is probably a good idea to use heat.

                          Bigger

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Bib,

                            >Well, it is a fact that collagenous material deforms easier at 103.5 and up. I used heat and liked it. Many others have reported the same. But, there are a lot of guys that have never used heat, and gained well. So, I cannot say that it is a must.

                            What I meant was how far on the upside is it worth to heat in terms of the zone of the body heated by the lamp. In your experience, 3/4 inches below the belly button is enough? Too high?

                            >If a guy has really tough collagenous tissues, it is probably a good idea to use heat.

                            Yes, I can tell that it feels better when heated. I have a number of observations that could be useful to others and I'll post them here when I have more experience.

                            Thanks

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              dd453,

                              >What I meant was how far on the upside is it worth to heat in terms of the zone of the body heated by the lamp. In your experience, 3/4 inches below the belly button is enough? Too high?<

                              The ligs do not attach above the pubic bone. Now, the abdominal sheeting does attach at the top of the pubic bone, and many guys report feeling a good stretch in the lower abs. But that area is not going to provide much in the way of gains when stretched.

                              So, a couple inches above the skin exit point is probably fine for the top limit. Within the normal pubic hair area.

                              >Yes, I can tell that it feels better when heated. I have a number of observations that could be useful to others and I'll post them here when I have more experience.<

                              That would be great.

                              Bigger

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Bib,

                                Thanks.

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