Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hi All! Really Excited To Embark On This Journey. Some Initial Thoughts and Questions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hi All! Really Excited To Embark On This Journey. Some Initial Thoughts and Questions

    To start off,

    I'm grateful to have made it to this point by finding jelqing is a thing on Reddit about 2 months ago. Since then started exploring the possibilities. My goal after learning its possible, is to gain length at this time.

    I spent about a month doing manual exercises regularly. Ultimately, I did not feel it was the best way to get results, especially at any reasonable rate of time.

    I'm starting out with the hardcore bib. I've found it to do everything I expected with very little trouble starting out. I started out with 2lbs and have worked up to 5 and dont expect to go beyond that any time soon. I have a very tight foreskin. When I'm fully erect it is completely tight. In the back of my mind I believe this journey really began when I started questioning if my cut has somehow limited my growth while growing up. Though it's probably not the case at the end of the day. When I'm fully erect my skin is totally maxed out.. It is certainly my main limiting factor hanging right now. After spending countless hours reading all stickies etc etc. and going off the recommendation of Bigger found in many posts, I began to wonder the limitations of skin stretch and any info I could find on learning about the best way to go about it. Namely, what factors play the biggest role? Factors I figure are TIME and FORCE; which are also factors for lig stretching as well. Unfortunately there is not much definitive research on these subjects. But I did find a paper from a group of people trying to figure this out to a more exact science for reconstructive surgery purposes. They have developed a mathematical model to start developing this subject into a more exact science. You can visit this paper here if you'd like to learn more about it. The most informative graphic and info I gained from this paper is shown below
    nihms313761f8.jpg "Creep test. Temporal evolution of total area stretch ϑ, reversible elastic area stretch ϑe, and irreversible growth area stretch ϑg for force driven skin expansion. Horizontal dashed lines represent the elastic stretch limit beyond which skin growth is activated ϑcrit, and the maximum area growth ϑmax. Forces are increased linearly up to the vertical dashed line and then held constant. Force control induces creep indicated through the gradual increase in growth stretch and total stretch at constant elastic stretch and stress." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583021/















    Now though I only understand all this to a certain extent.. and they are focusing on the shapes of inflate implants placed under the skin for maximum growth and the area of growth achieved... I gather that you can stretch skin with up to a certain amount of force and then time is the only benefiting factor once that force is reached. Unfortunately, they do not give any indication of what that amount of force is..

    After this research I wanted to explore the same question, but with ligaments. Again, since lig stretching is usual considered not something one would want to achieve outside of gymnastics or ballet... there isn't much for informative information here either. Usually, its considered to harm safety in joints.. Best I could find in general is some rudimentary information here.

    In summary, based off the information I've found so far. Skin stretches best by a CERTAIN MAX level of force and then gains most of its stretching due to time. Then repeat.. Ligaments, stretch quickly and micro tear in just over 30 seconds and beyond.

    Now, here is where y'all come in and hopefully can shed some light on this topic in a more detailed manner than I've found in the forums and over at Thunders. Since I am clearly limited by skin stretch right now, I dont want to over work my skin yet do so as fast as possible so I can work on the ligs. Where the real magic seems to happen. (obviously) At what weight would yall consider to be a good weight to achieve skin stretch safely? Next is time and I dont have much privacy right now so my time is limited. So I'm wondering how much skin stretch can be achieved in just 20 minute sessions..? How long will 30-60 minutes a day do before seeing reasonable results with just skin stretch? 1 week? 1 month?

    If I'm on track with my research so far, I wonder if getting an all day stretcher (only decent one I've found is the zen stretcher but the attachment sitting around the head for long periods of time is a concern I have, which maybe you can ease my mind about?) would be a good idea as time is our friend when stretching skin. The only goal for this is to help stretch skin and I imagine I'd use to stay in an extended state for healing as well once I really get into ligs.

    My current log - All ST/BTC (straight down seems to have a lower angel stretch as when seated in a chair my pelvis is in a more perpendicular arrangement than ST - so perhaps more straight out when seated I should say. I still need to do more research to understand how most people are doing between the cheeks)
    Day 1 - 3 sets, weight 2 lbs between 5-15

    Day 2 - 4 sets, weight 2-3 lbs between 5-15 minutes (both days I didnt go long sessions as I was focused on blood in head. As well as determining what I was feeling where and why)

    Day 3 - 4 sets, weight 3-5 lbs between 10-20 used mainly 3 for hanging, cannot do 5 standing. Tried a few times. Still working on getting wrap and placement and accompanying feelings learned and dialed in. Can use 5lbs while seated as 3 almost didn't feel like enough. Further back on the shack clearer is easier on the head nerves. Will likely need to add more wrap in order to get enough grasp with bib as it is nearly maxed out (top and bottom nearly all the way closed or is. Yes im toed in a hair and top is more closed than bottom.) Yet currently not getting nearly any slippage if not any at all. Did better keeping blood pooling in head. Used 5 lbs for the first time while to get what I felt give or take the first or second day standing. obviously due to friction.

    Day 4 - 3 sets so far (currently today 7/18/21) 3-5 lbs 3 in the morning. 5lbs after a long day playing volleyball with fam in the heat so I believe I was warmed up, tried 5 standing successfully wrapped once, felt a little too far up with maybe some slight slippage, I believe due to my wrap job. Then took a shower 30 minutes later and used in shower for 20 minutes at 5 lbs. Was as far back on the shaft as I could get pretty much, no slippage, skin stretch highly felt and pulled a greater area all the way up around my pubs, of course. I have only felt slight lig stretch and mostly in the area I most felt (weakest point) while doing manual stretching. Which is at the left most base of the shaft/pelvis. I havent really felt to reach fatigue, but mostly if not all skin stretch. But still have much to understand and learn so maybe I'm not 100% accurate here. I can force some lig stretch if I tighten my abs and pull my stomach in, but in a relaxed state noda...

    I use "massage lotion for stretch marks" aka "Cocoa Butter formala with vitamin E" "contains collagen, elastin, argan oil, shea butter" and too many other ingredients to list at least once a day.

    I do not intend on going over 5 for some time as I dont want to damage my skin by too much force. If anyone has anything they can offer to let me know if I'm thinking clearly or around the right weight to do so, please do. As well as if you think an ADS will help me quickly do that so ligs can get hit with the lack of time I have to hang currently. I ordered some double hook weights which include
    • 1,000g
    • 500g
    • 200g (2)
    • 100g
    • 50g
    • 20g (2)
    • 10g
    I will be thankful to get away from the 2 and 3 lb dumbbells I bought at walmart to get started. lol


    Lastly, can anyone speak to this topic and the balancing act between these biomechanical/skin nutrients?
    "While collagen gives structure to the skin, elastin allows it to stretch. Skin that is stretched beyond the normal level is known as hyperelastic skin. This occurs when there is a rapid increase in collagen or the production of elastin becomes low, hence causing the skin to lose its capacity for elasticity." Would taking collagen supplements have any benefits or would it make the skin hard to stretch along with other structures? I currently take a daily multivitamin and 2000mg of L-arganine a day - 1k in morn 1k before bed.

    Thanks for reading. My hope is that maybe we can come up with a more clear regimen for stretching skin and ligs in there own way and time frame. but I'm a total rookie and probably sound like a dumbass for even saying that. My analytical brain kicking in I guess.
    Last edited by Trippydick; 07-19-2021, 01:38 AM.

  • #2
    Also, if I need to send pick to bib that’s cool but what would over stretched skin look like? Tonight I noticed after high shaft 5lb session some slight red perpendicular lines in my skin and that’s really spurred this post immediately after the session. Not super alarms because I didn’t experience an alarming pain. Nor does my skin burn or tingle nearly at all, but def not for an extended amount of time. All feels pretty dang normal I’d say.
    Last edited by Trippydick; 07-19-2021, 03:15 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Trippydick,

      First, what is your goal? Are you trying to make gains in your erect length? Or do you just want more shaft skin?

      >Now, here is where y'all come in and hopefully can shed some light on this topic in a more detailed manner than I've found in the forums and over at Thunders. Since I am clearly limited by skin stretch right now, I dont want to over work my skin yet do so as fast as possible so I can work on the ligs. Where the real magic seems to happen. (obviously) At what weight would yall consider to be a good weight to achieve skin stretch safely?<

      There is no arbitrary weight. Every guy is different, and tissue strength differs between guys. Go by fatigue. Your body will tell you when the stress levels, weight and time, are too much, or not enough.

      For now, you want to condition soft tissues, and learn to hang correctly.

      >Next is time and I dont have much privacy right now so my time is limited. So I'm wondering how much skin stretch can be achieved in just 20 minute sessions..? How long will 30-60 minutes a day do before seeing reasonable results with just skin stretch? 1 week? 1 month?<

      I recommend at least ten hours of actual hang time each week, hanging every day. That is 4-5 twenty minute sets each day.

      >If I'm on track with my research so far, I wonder if getting an all day stretcher (only decent one I've found is the zen stretcher but the attachment sitting around the head for long periods of time is a concern I have, which maybe you can ease my mind about?) would be a good idea as time is our friend when stretching skin. The only goal for this is to help stretch skin and I imagine I'd use to stay in an extended state for healing as well once I really get into ligs.<

      I do not recommend ADS. You do not need them to make gains, and they can cause issues which affect hanging. Any adhesions formed from previous deformation will be pulled out in the next hanging session.

      >Still working on getting wrap and placement and accompanying feelings learned and dialed in. Can use 5lbs while seated as 3 almost didn't feel like enough. Further back on the shack clearer is easier on the head nerves.<

      How far back? IF too far back, then you may stretch some base skin, but actual shaft gains will be harder to make.

      >Will likely need to add more wrap in order to get enough grasp with bib as it is nearly maxed out (top and bottom nearly all the way closed or is.<

      Use as many passes of wrap in the attachment zone to give you the WFG you need.

      >Lastly, can anyone speak to this topic and the balancing act between these biomechanical/skin nutrients?
      "While collagen gives structure to the skin, elastin allows it to stretch. Skin that is stretched beyond the normal level is known as hyperelastic skin. This occurs when there is a rapid increase in collagen or the production of elastin becomes low, hence causing the skin to lose its capacity for elasticity." Would taking collagen supplements have any benefits or would it make the skin hard to stretch along with other structures? I currently take a daily multivitamin and 2000mg of L-arganine a day - 1k in morn 1k before bed.<

      I have never taken or recommended taking collagen for the skin. So I have no information to offer.

      >Also, if I need to send pick to bib that’s cool but what would over stretched skin look like?<

      Depends on what your definition of overstretched is. If you wish to make erect gains, you must stretch skin. Hanging weights from your penis will cause stretch marks. Horizontal lines across the shaft and the base. To me, that is not overstretched, but normal stretching.

      To me, overstretched is open skin across the base, where too much tearing has occurred. IF you get to that point, you need to back off.

      >Tonight I noticed after high shaft 5lb session some slight red perpendicular lines in my skin and that’s really spurred this post immediately after the session. Not super alarms because I didn’t experience an alarming pain. Nor does my skin burn or tingle nearly at all, but def not for an extended amount of time. All feels pretty dang normal I’d say.<

      No way for me to know, but it sounds like you may have experienced a slight amount of deformation in the skin.

      Bigger

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you for your response Bigger.

        <First, what is your goal? Are you trying to make gains in your erect length? Or do you just want more shaft skin?>
        Make gains in erect length.

        <Use as many passes of wrap in the attachment zone to give you the WFG you need.>
        WRG? Only educated guess I could make is Working Force Grip? It did not find wrg in the abbreviation section of the forum.

        <No way for me to know, but it sounds like you may have experienced a slight amount of deformation in the skin.>
        Deformation = good? correct?

        Since posting I have experienced I believe positive results. Areas that felt strain are not felt like before or at all and new locations are being strained. So good signs of advancement. Wrapping is becoming easier each time with wrapping and attachment point repeatability. I tried using a longer tband but found the excess cause the rubber to want to bunch up a bit and allowed for the hanger to drop down further than I wanted. I'd say my main area for improvement is keeping blood out of front of shaft and head. But getting better about it and seeing better color in the head while hanging.

        I'm going to amp up the weight slightly as I do not really seem to be finding fatigue in first or second set. Outside of that initial skin stretching I dealt with I am not feeling as much strain or stretching of internals I feel is appropriate. Internals seem to be ok with everything going on and conditioning well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Trippydick,

          >WRG? Only educated guess I could make is Working Force Grip? It did not find wrg in the abbreviation section of the forum.<

          I responded to your question about it. WFG is Wrapped Flaccid Girth.

          >Deformation = good? correct?<

          Yes.

          >Since posting I have experienced I believe positive results. Areas that felt strain are not felt like before or at all and new locations are being strained. So good signs of advancement. Wrapping is becoming easier each time with wrapping and attachment point repeatability. I tried using a longer tband but found the excess cause the rubber to want to bunch up a bit and allowed for the hanger to drop down further than I wanted.<

          Two things...If the wrap is bunching up, then you did not quite pull enough tension on the passes of wrap in the attachment zone.

          You have a stretching hand, left or right, and a wrapping hand, left or right.

          Stretch out the penis, grasping the head and pulling straight out. Then smooth the skin back toward the base. While still stretched out, start your wrap, pinning the leading edge of the wrap between your stretching fingers (middle finger and ring finger), and your shaft. Start a half inch to 1.25 inches from the coronal ridge, depending on overall length.

          Make your first pass of wrap around, and then a second about an eighth inch down from the first. Many guys like a third close pass at the top. Then grasp those first passes of wrap and the shaft firmly with your wrapping hand, at the top of the passes, and transfer your stretching grip from the head, to those first passes of wrap, and continue the stretch.

          Then grasp the loose skin, and tug it back toward the base, all around the shaft. This should pull out any wrinkled skin under those first passes of wrap.
          While still stretching out the shaft, make another pass, perhaps a quarter to a half inch down from the original passes. Transfer your stretching grip to the top of the new pass of wrap, holding the wrap and shaft in tandem. Then again tug the skin back toward the base. Continue making passes and tugging the skin back toward the base. When you finish, the skin under the wrap should be wrinkle free.

          Next, the hanger works by grasping the internals of the shaft. So unless the bunched wrap was in the top teeth, and you could not tighten enough, the bunched wrap should not have made a difference.

          >I'd say my main area for improvement is keeping blood out of front of shaft and head. But getting better about it and seeing better color in the head while hanging.<

          When you first attach the hanger, before tightening much, if at all, you need to push it all the way to the head, and allow the excess blood to move past the wrap. If it cannot, then either your wrap is too tight, you tightened the hanger too much before pushing forward, or a combination.

          If you still cannot get out the excess blood, then squeeze the head and upper shaft, and get out most of the blood, before you push the hanger forward. If that does not work, let me know.

          After pushing forward, hold it there a minute, until all the excess blood is removed. Then use your left thumb to reestablish the gap between head and hanger, as you go through the tightening process.

          You want to push down/forward with your left thumb, on the shaft, between head and hanger, while you are lifting up on the hanger with your left palm, as you tighten the hanger with your right hand. This will force the shaft low in the shaft well, and keep the excess blood from returning. While waiting between tightening periods, hold forward pressure on the hanger, to keep excess blood from returning. When you finish tightening, the head should be flaccid, and the hanger tight.

          From the time you remove the excess blood, until the set is over, you need some forward pressure, to keep the blood from returning.
          >
          I'm going to amp up the weight slightly as I do not really seem to be finding fatigue in first or second set.<

          Follow the stress progression in the NOS email. You should not be worrying about fatigue at this point. You need to begin to condition soft tissues, and learn to hang correctly.

          Bigger

          Comment


          • #6
            Will do. Thanks Big. I've read these instructions found many places on the forum. I am following them as closely as I can. Ill report back at a later time as needed or with any positive results.

            Cheers

            Comment


            • #7
              Are the only instructions to determine lot in the LOT theory thread shared as Q&A? From what I can gather I’m assuming you stretch out flaccid starting at a straight up angle. Perform a kegals while adjusting the angle lower. When my head does not move back anymore or just before would be my LOT?
              I’f I’m doing this right, I’m somewhat disappointed to report it is about 7-7.5 maybe.

              As for mirror and palp test. For mirror test I believe my exit point is around the blue dot (middle) of picture in mirror and palp test thread, maybe a little lower.

              For palp, I’m trying to understand the structures and what is what. But clearly the ligs we are talking about don’t go under and around close to the anus correct? Those are different than what we are looking for attached to pubic bone..? After much deliberation and feeling around, trying to follow the side of base ligs and following them while palping, it seems they end and then the ligs going under legs going back to anus start. Am I thinking straight here? If so I’m hypothesizing around 1-1.5 inches to that point where they seem to end..

              Big shrugs of uncertainty on all of this.. After reading hanging guide, test, and lot theory threads 2-4 times I’m still trying to put some things together in my mind.

              I’ll be really disappointed if my potential is low. Not ganna lie. Being 6’3” and around 6” EL I really would like to gain 2” minimum, hoping a lot/good portion of that come from some easy gains. Either way I hope to better understand my personal anatomy and come up with appropriate medium-long term plan.
              Last edited by Trippydick; 07-22-2021, 08:17 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Trippydick,

                >Are the only instructions to determine lot in the LOT theory thread shared as Q&A?<

                The main instructions are there. I have written about it many times in the various threads.

                >From what I can gather I’m assuming you stretch out flaccid starting at a straight up angle.<

                Yes.

                > Perform a kegals while adjusting the angle lower. When my head does not move back anymore or just before would be my LOT?<

                When you first SEE a reduction in tugback. That is when the ligs begin to engage.

                >I’f I’m doing this right, I’m somewhat disappointed to report it is about 7-7.5 maybe.<

                No reason to be disappointed. Good to know your anatomy.

                >As for mirror and palp test. For mirror test I believe my exit point is around the blue dot (middle) of picture in mirror and palp test thread, maybe a little lower.<

                That would correspond to about an 8-9 LOT. You can send me the three mirror test pics if you want my evaluation.

                >For palp, I’m trying to understand the structures and what is what. But clearly the ligs we are talking about don’t go under and around close to the anus correct?<

                The palp test does not involve ligs. You simply find the bottom of the hard pubic bone, and measure from there, to the midline of the shaft exit point.

                >Those are different than what we are looking for attached to pubic bone..?<

                No ligs.

                >I’ll be really disappointed if my potential is low. Not ganna lie. Being 6’3” and around 6” EL I really would like to gain 2” minimum, hoping a lot/good portion of that come from some easy gains. Either way I hope to better understand my personal anatomy and come up with appropriate medium-long term plan.<

                First, you want to fully stretch out your ligs. If you have not reached your goals when you do that, then you can move to tunica work. Easy or hard, gains are gains. There are a lot of guys that have made good gains from tunica work.

                Bigger

                Comment


                • #9
                  I tried finding what you would like for the 3 photos. I’m assuming front angle. And 80 degrees rotation for both sides?

                  I will send the 4 wrap and hang photos as well. Likely by tomorrow. Is the email address I received the NOS email from a good place to send the photos?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I must be dense. I follow pubic bone down and then the CC and bulb muscle covers it I think when I can’t follow from the front or side anymore.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Trippydick,

                      >I tried finding what you would like for the 3 photos. I’m assuming front angle. And 80 degrees rotation for both sides?<

                      First, stand back far enough to see the entire pelvic region, including legs. Feet at shoulder width. Camera at groin level. Good light. Flaccid.

                      If needed, use a beard trimmer to trim the hair at the base.

                      I need one straight on, and one from each 45 degree angle to the mirror. Three pictures total.

                      If you email them, do NOT embed them in the body of the email. Attach the pic files to the email.

                      >I will send the 4 wrap and hang photos as well. Likely by tomorrow. Is the email address I received the NOS email from a good place to send the photos?>

                      bib_hanger@hotmail.com

                      >I must be dense. I follow pubic bone down and then the CC and bulb muscle covers it I think when I can’t follow from the front or side anymore<

                      I do not know what you are palpating. You simply have to palpate around the shaft, as it goes down and under the pubic bone. When you find the bottom of the pubic bone, that is the first data point.

                      Bigger

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Trippydick,

                        >So if I have issues, it’s 1. I don’t feel like I’m stretching internals, just skin.<

                        if you wish to make significant gains, you must stretch a significant amount of skin. The hanger has not slid to the head in your hanging pics, and there is not much skin in front of the hanger. So it appears you need to stretch skin.

                        >Can comfortably hang 8lbs. So I think I’m not grabbing internals and stretching ligs. <

                        The hanger is not moving much, if at all, between the attachment pic, and the hanging pics. So it appears you are grasping the internals.

                        >I don’t know what they are but you might be able to understand what I mean by… when jelqing say a 70% erect and you get about half way up and you reach a portion that is harder and seems to hold more blood than bottom portion.. might these be the “internals and shoulders” we are trying to get behind? <

                        First, you do not try to "get behind" any certain internals. you pulse push while going through the tightening process, to find the most comfortable set of internals, to finish tightening upon. I cannot possibly say what internals you are feeling while jelqing.

                        >Other possible problems is excess blood in the head. Currently do not have much discomfort there but I follow your instructions repeated to others many times and when I hang any further down the shaft than shown in pics it inevitably holds blood. Not sure what amount is ok and isn’t.<

                        It looks like you have removed most of the excess blood. If it is comfortable, then no problem.

                        As far as technique, I would recommend you cut a longer piece of wrap. Then use a couple more passes in the attachment zone, so that you can open the bottom inner hex nut adjustments a bit. Also, enough wrap to be able to tape the last pass behind the attachment zone. Try not to attach on tape. Everything else looks OK, if it is comfortable.

                        Bigger

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Today I noticed that my shaft is lumpy and almost hard in a spot or two. Is there reason to be alarmed by this?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Trippydick,

                            >Today I noticed that my shaft is lumpy and almost hard in a spot or two. Is there reason to be alarmed by this?<

                            I have no idea. You did not provide much to go on.

                            I can tell you that I experienced many changes while hanging for gains. Veins I had never seen before, infected hair follicles, etc,

                            Bigger

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry for late response. All is well. I know you’ll wanna punch me in the face for saying this outloud but that issue was from drinking and hanging. Confirmed twice now.

                              I am elated to report I stretched between the cheeks today and finally achieved what I expected to feel this whole time. I’ve had a hard time stretch front ligs SD. But finally sat my ass of the edge of my chair and leaned the back rest all the way back and praise god! It felt amazing. And only used 3 lbs and felt it was plenty. Also after 3 sets flaccid length was the longest I’ve ever seen it.

                              Now, my time spent has not been for not because I have learned a lot regarding wrapping and hanger adjustments in the mean time hanging SD.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X