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Managing Fatigue

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  • Managing Fatigue

    For the vast majority of guys, it is silly to think they will gain without reaching fatigue, and actually feeling tissue deformation. Some guys have reported initial gains without becoming fatigued, but this generally does not last long within their PE career. Sooner or later they have to break some eggs to make a large penis. Whatever.

    Soreness, or other descriptions of fatigue, are an indication of tissue deformation. PAIN IS AN INDICATION OF INJURY. The only thing holding back the measured parameters of an erection, either length or girth, are the tough collagenous tissues of the region, namely the longitudinal and lateral fibers of the tunica, and the various ligament structures which may hold the shaft close to the pubic bone. We are striving for controlled damage to these tough collagenous tissues, the culmination of which is gains.

    From time to time, you may wish to stretch skin in a dedicated fashion. Divide and conquer. Moving the hanger attachment point back toward the base one half inch or so will generally place most if not all of the stresses on the skin. Then after a week or so, you can move the hanger attachment point one half inch toward the head, and all of the stresses should be on the tunica. It is simple to reach down, and feel whether the skin is taught or not, to determine what structures the weight is affecting. If you are stretching skin in a dedicated fashion, the same guidelines below apply concerning fatigue. You do not want to overdo skin stretch, and have to deal with cracks in the skin, etc.

    Other than skin, and allowing time for the skin and other soft tissues to adapt to the stresses, you do not have to worry about gains within these tissues. If you can deform the tough collagenous tissues, tunica (shaft), and the ligs, then the soft tissues go along for the ride, as far as gains are concerned. It is only the tunica which determines the volume of blood which inflates an erection. Nerves will slowly generate to continue communications within the shaft, as gains occur. Blood vessels easily stretch. Smooth muscle within the three chambers will expand to the limits of the tunica to accept new blood volume.

    Other than soreness, fatigue can also be described as the inability to continue hanging at a certain stress level. For example, you may have a max weight of ten lbs. IOW, you have, in the past, hung ten lbs for a full 20 minute set, in relative comfort. Then, in the next set, you may start with ten lbs, and at some point in the set, your body tells you that you MUST reduce the weight. The comfort level drops to a level at which you cannot abide. This means the tissues are giving way, nerves are being fired, and your body is telling you to cut back the stresses. This is a GOOD thing. The goal of hanging should not be a weight lifting contest, but rather a controlled method of deforming tissues in a regimented manner, in order to gain. You should strive to hang the least amount of weight, at any angle, which will bring on or sustain fatigue.

    Nobody else can inform you of the correct stress levels for your situation. You must take the information your body provides during any individual set, and use that information to decide your next course of action.

    When beginning your hanging career, you should ALWAYS start at a low weight, 2.5-5 lbs. You may or may not feel the stretch at these weights. Then, each week, if you are NOT reaching fatigue during your sets, you should increase the weight by 1-2 lbs. You MUST allow the soft tissues of the shaft, the skin, nerves, blood vessels, smooth muscle, etc, time to adapt and adjust to the stresses, not only of the weight, but adapt to the attachment point stresses..

    At some point, you will reach a stress level that will bring on fatigue to the COLLAGENOUS TISSUES, within the first set or two of the session. This may be five lbs for some guys, or 30 lbs for others. Most report fatigue somewhere around ten lbs, but the range is large. The reasons for these differences are probably many, but the two which I believe are relative are pain tolerance, and the relative strength or weakness of each individuals collagenous tissue. At any rate, this is when you will need to begin managing fatigue, making decisions that will impact the relative success of your hanging.

    Learning the differences between attachment point discomfort, and discomfort from the stresses provided by the weight, is somewhat of an art form. However, with a bit of experience, it soon becomes easy. Obviously, discomfort in the attachment area CAN BE a sign of poor hanger attachment technique or wrapping problems. But it can also be because of the weight, deforming the collagenous material of the tunica in and around the hanger. If you are able to tighten the hanger down, with little discomfort, then there is probably no problem with the soft tissues. Especially if you tighten down the hanger to a degree of slight discomfort, and then add the weight, and the discomfort goes away, then there is no problem with attachment technique.

    Then, if you feel discomfort at the attachment point a few minutes after adding the weight, it is probably because of the weight stress affecting the tunica, a good thing. Of course, if there is discomfort in the head, then that is because of poor wrapping technique, or poor hanger adjustment or attachment. If you only feel discomfort behind the hanger toward the base, then this is most likely collagenous material deformation, either in the tunica or the ligs, a good thing.

    The subject of choice of hanging angles is dependent upon the targeted next limiting factor, and is a topic for another thread. But in managing fatigue, the angles used, including whether or not you use a fulcrum, are important. It is very possible to become completely fatigued while hanging SO with a fulcrum at 2.5 lbs, and then switch to SO without a fulcrum, and hang 30 lbs. I have done it. So, I want to look at an example of fatigue management, at only one angle. But please realize that you may totally fatigue the target tissues at one angle, reaching the stage of fatigue where you cannot continue at any weight, and then be able to finish your session at even HIGHER weights while hanging at ANOTHER angle.

    First, let’s assume you are totally adapted to the stresses of hanging SO with a fulcrum. You reach fatigue while hanging 7.5 lbs, barely managing to last for a 20 minute set. Obviously, the next set, you will probably not be able to hang for the full 20 minutes at 7.5 lbs. You can start out at 7.5, but be prepared to drop to six lbs during the set. Or, with personal experience, you may decide to start the set at six lbs. Then, considering what happens during the next set, you make another decision whether to stay at six, or drop to five. This continues throughout the session.

    Please understand that at no time should you push the envelope, gritting your teeth and suffering to last through the 20 minutes. If you reach undesired comfort levels at 16 minutes or more, then end the set. If you reach undesired comfort levels at eight minutes, then reduce the weight. Use good common sense. You will NOT make any more progress suffering than not suffering. The only thing you will do if you suffer in discomfort is make it more likely to miss workouts, Pavlov’s dog, or risk injury. Again, slight to moderate discomfort equals tissue deformation, pain equals injury. You should know that the stress level is there, but it should not demand all of your attention. No clock watching. You should be able to concentrate on another task.

    Now, what happens if, during the previous sessions, you were reaching fatigue at 7.5 lbs during the first set, but you do not reach fatigue during the current first set? Simply add one pound to the next set, and see what happens. You should not ever add more than 1-2 lbs above your previous max weight. There is simply no reason to do so. Especially when using a fulcrum, you have no idea how your body will react to a large new stress level.

    After you begin to reach fatigue at the new stress level, you may or may not be able to begin your NEXT session at the new stress level. IOW, you may move up to 8.5 lbs, and reach fatigue during your second set of a session. Then the next day, you may start at 8.5, and quickly realize that you must reduce the weight. This is normal, and fine. Then, two days later, you may be able to go back to 8.5 for twenty minutes with no problem. Or you may find that two days later, you must reduce to six lbs during the first set. Just do what your body tells you to do, without other considerations. Hanging a certain weight because that is what someone has hung before, even at risk of injury, does not make one a hero. It makes him stupid. Be extremely HAPPY when you must reduce the weight. This is progress.

    I believe I have written extensively about the process of healing in these tough collagenous tissues, how it occurs, and how to keep your gains. Each new session, the healing crinellations caused by previous stresses are pulled out, straightened out, helping to cause healing while in the extended state. Healing is going to occur, slower for some, faster for others. It can either occur in the extended state, or healing can return the tissues to their previous size, only stronger. As well as pulling out the old crinellations, significant stress levels cause new controlled damage, followed by new crinellations. It is hopefully a continuous process for as long as you wish to gain.

    However, if there is a great deal of controlled damage, along with a great deal of fatigue, it may be impossible to hang for even one set at greatly reduced weight. In this case, you have probably overdone it, and need to take a rest day. Come back the next day, and see what your body tells you. But if you can, try to hang at lest one set at reduced weight, in order to pull out the previously formed crinellations, and help allow for healing in the extended state. I see no profit in rest days without reason. This only causes the soft tissues to become deconditioned, and for the collagenous areas to lay down new collagenous material, becoming stronger.

    Finally, the reason to know the amounts of weight you are hanging, at any one angle, is to help regulate the amount of stress. But the amount of weight is NOT the only indicator of the STRESS LEVEL. Friction at some angles plays a big part in the total stress level, either more or less. For example, you can be hanging SO with ten lbs, with the skids of the hanger riding on the chair seat, then push your hips forward, allowing the hanger to move forward, then relax your hips, and the stress will be greater than ten lbs. Or you can leave your hips relaxed for the entire set, and the friction of the skids on the chair seat will make the stress level less than ten lbs.

    The use of a fulcrum is a method of dividing and conquering. The rice sock, duct tape fulcrum especially targets the septum of the tunica. Fatigue comes relatively quicker within the septum. Without the associated tissues assisting in resisting the stresses, you cannot hang as much weight using this fulcrum. Therefore, the weight used is relative to the technique used. Ten lbs is not ten lbs is not ten lbs.

    You must go by what your body tells you in any one situation, at any one time. Go by FEEL. Not some arbitrary weight. Once again, this is NOT a weight lifting competition. The only reason for a guy to ever be impressed by a weight amount hung is because of the controlled damage provided, and the gains attained. The goal is to reach fatigue early within a session, and to continue the fatigue for the rest of the session in a controlled manner, whether that requires two lbs or twenty.

    I hope this helps. I am sure that things were omitted. Questions appreciated.


  • #2
    hey Bib,

    needed this post. thanks.

    with respect to the above, how do you think hardcore hanging works on its own merit?

    keep pushing


    • #3

      >with respect to the above, how do you think hardcore hanging works on its own merit? <

      I don't really understand the question. Not too sharp right now. Could you be more expansive?




      • #4

        So basically, once you get a routine, the first 20/ 40 min should be at a higher weight than the rest of the time, correct?
        Also, if the strcutures get stretched in the initiall sets, why do we need the next two hours hanging. Is it like active healing?
        Is it safe to assume that the part of the shaft in front of the hanger gets no stretch and might only see gains as an indirect result from increased structures in the rest of the shaft (bigger blood vessels, tunica, nerves, etc)?



        • #5

          >So basically, once you get a routine, the first 20/ 40 min should be at a higher weight than the rest of the time, correct?<

          I believe you stated it correctly. In general, all other things being equal, you will be able to hang more weight in the earlier sets than the later sets. Some guys like a warmup set to begin, 50-75% of their max weight.

          >Also, if the strcutures get stretched in the initiall sets, why do we need the next two hours hanging. Is it like active healing?<

          I never have been able to explain this worth a damn. But I have another idea that may help.

          What you feel being stressed in any individual set is the next limiting factors. These are tissues with a significant stress on them. Tissues, fibers, not being stressed and deformed are NOT felt. However, they would be stressed, were it not for the prior first limiting factors.

          These are other limiting factors, tissues, fibers, right in line behind the next limiting factor, which when the next limiting factor fails, take some or all of the stress. Fibers are challenged and fail, on and on in a cascade fashion, each in it's turn. If many or all fail at one time, this is called a torn ligament or tendon or tunica, and is a serious injury.

          The process of challenging the next limiting factor in order shows one of the great values of hanging. Gravity used in hanging does not cease to provide stress, so that all limiting factors can be challenged in turn. As long as the stresses used are not too great, the damage is controlled, and everything is fine.

          On a side note, as each limiting factor, tissue, fiber, is stretched in turn, and then succeeding tissues, fibers take up some or all of the stress, the previous stressed fibers will heal, hopefully in the extended state. The newly stressed fibers do not actually take all of the stress. The old stressed fibers will still take a measure of the stress. Therefore, over time, as more and more fibers are stressed, more and more fibers in any particular area will be resisting the stress in concert. This is one of the reasons why, over time, more and more stress (weight or fulcrum) is needed in order to continue to deform tissue.

          Also the fact that as collagenous material heals, it becomes slightly thicker from the added colalgenous material across the crinellations, and therefore slightly stronger. This is a natural bodily response to stress.

          So, you can hang one set per day, past your marginal stretch, and make some progress. Then the next day, you could hang another set, pull out the crinellations of the previous day, and perhaps make some more progress on your marginal stretch. But the weight required to make that progress is marginal stretch will remain high, and it will require many days to go through all of the next limting factors.

          Better is to challenge and defeat as many limiting factors as possible within the same session. The reason follows:

          The outward force of an erection is not that great. When the three chambers of the penis fill with blood, the shaft expands in girth and length. If you have never PEed, and the non-elastin collagenous tissues are ridged, then they will determine the outward limit of the erection (length). It does not matter how much blood pressure there is (within normal bodily limits), length will be no greater length expressed, than what the tough non-elastin collagenous tissue allows.

          What you want is to be able to acquire that greatest marginal stretch, with the least amount of stress possible, which in turn will translate into erect gains. For example, if it requires 20 lbs of force for you to get a one quarter inch gain in marginal stretch, then you will have little chance of translating that into an erect gain, using only internal blood pressure of an erection. But, if you hang multiple sets, and are still able to acquire that one quarter inch gain, using only five lbs of stress in your last set, you are much more likely to see an erect gain.

          >Is it safe to assume that the part of the shaft in front of the hanger gets no stretch and might only see gains as an indirect result from increased structures in the rest of the shaft (bigger blood vessels, tunica, nerves, etc)?<

          At some point in time, you will probably use enough weight for the hanger to slide down, and engage the front thumbs of the hanger into the shoulders on the sides of the head. At that point in time, the entire shaft will be getting at least some stress.

          Before that time comes, you are correct.



          • #6

            what i meant is how does hardcore hanging differ to your approach?

            because sets are limited, often around 10-20 minutes, 1-2 times a day, there is no extended tension repair period in the deformed state.

            how do you think gains are made via this method?

            i don't think i will ever hang like i hate it, i just wondered what your thoughts were.

            hope thats a little clearer.

            keep pushing


            • #7

              >what i meant is how does hardcore hanging differ to your approach?

              because sets are limited, often around 10-20 minutes, 1-2 times a day, there is no extended tension repair period in the deformed state.<

              That is true. I would assume it would be a bit tougher on the soft tissues, since they would not be as conditioned. And the collagenous tissues would have more opportunity to heal in the non-extended state.

              >how do you think gains are made via this method?<

              Same way as in the regressive method, only not as smoothly, or with the same chance at success, in my opinion. Tough to judge the two, because you would have to have a trial on the same person. But not only are no two people exactly alike, no two time frames in PE are alike, because of previously deformed tissues.

              As said above, underlying limiting factors would not be challenged until later sessions, rather than in subsequent sets as I recommend.



              • #8

                Also, there could be increased chance for injury, if you did not have a good handle on what you were feeling. This refers to a high amount of stress, one time per day.



                • #9
                  Bigger, great to read your thoughts again. Your advice and knowledge is a breath of fresh air to all the horseshit being posted elsewhere.

                  I'm trying to manage a good deal of shaft soreness and my ab area feels like I've been kicked by a mule. It is a good thing for me to be sore, it assures me that work has been done. I don't really measure much, especially BPEL; under a full workload of hanging and healing while extended my erections are nothing to write home about.

                  I really am a hardhead and resist dropping weight until my sets can last no longer than 8-10 minutes. I'm having a good run at hanging this go around, was up to 18 lbs. for two hours daily, now down to 15 lbs. dropping down to 1.5 hours.

                  I stay a little paranoid about the tissues healing in the unextended state and have incorporated a light stretcher for 1-3 hours daily delivering aprroximately 3 lbs. or so.

                  Thanks, CJ in AR


                  • #10

                    Really great to see you here.

                    Now, you worry me a bit talking about that much soreness. Ride the fatigue, don't abuse it. If your erections are suffering, you are probably going too far. You can probably make as much progress, hanging at a lower weight, for a full 20 minute set, while not suffering.

                    Do not be hard headed. No profit in that.



                    • #11

                      What kind of set up do you have for the extended healing?
                      3lbs. wow. good stuff.



                      • #12
                        Ok Bigger, so tell me if this sounds right according to this Mangaging fatigue thread- I have been starting off in the mornings with 12.5,11.25, and then 10 the last three days. Yesterday, I did 3 more sets right after that in the morning, at 8.75, and 7.5 twice. I could only last 13 minutes for the 11.25 hang in my second hang of the day, but it was 20 for all the others. I did not hang later that day. And then this morning today, I could only do 12.5 for 15 minutes, 10 for 15 minutes, 7.5 for 16 minutes, and then 7.5 for 20. According to what you are saying in this "fatigue" thread, this is good, correct?, and it should be OK that I don't hang later in the day after 4+ hangs in the morning?
                        Current- FL=5
                        Side BPFSL=7.75-8.25


                        • #13

                          That sounds pretty good. When you cut the sets short, was it because of total fatigue? You just had to get the weight and hanger off? Can you take a plate off while hanging, and make it through 20 minutes?

                          It sounds to me as if you are riding the fatigue as much as possible. If you cannot hang the other sets, just do the best that you can. But if you can hang your nightly sets, then try it, even if at greatly reduced weight. Or switch to your secondary angle.



                          • #14
                            Fulcrum Method


                            You said
                            It is very possible to become completely fatigued while hanging SO with a fulcrum at 2.5 lbs, and then switch to SO without a fulcrum, and hang 30 lbs. I have done it.
                            Could you explain how the fulcrum is applied? I can imagine some methods of which a fulcrum could be used but perhaps I am way off base.



                            • #15
                              Doh!! I see there is a thread about the fulcrum, can I delete the previous question LOL.